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and you're seeing grover norquist's grip fall apart. we really need to do this. this is a really important thing to do to improve the lives of young people. one thing to keep in mind, it is younger workers who are being hurt the most. the job gains are heavily among 55 and over. we don't want to have a society where we get cynical young people where there is no point in playing by the rules because you won't get a job any way. >> why not go over the cliff? if we go over the cliff, we're talking solving the financial problems. but we run the risk of another recession. i believe personally that we might dip a little bit, but it won't be anything like the first chart we showed. i mean, let's get rid of bush tax policy and start over. what about that? >> i think that that may well be a good idea. it's risky, ed. there's some risk as to what will happen. we don't know. but the fact is the government would then have all of this revenue. if it spends that revenue to create jobs and regardless of what the republicans say, government creates jobs all the time from school
and you're seeing grover norquist's grip fall apart. we really need to do this. this is a really important thing to do to improve the lives of young people. one thing to keep in mind, it is younger workers who are being hurt the most. the job gains are heavily among 55 and over. we don't want to have a society where we get cynical young people where there is no point in playing by the rules because you won't get a job any way. >> why not go over the cliff? if we go over the cliff, we're...
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Dec 4, 2012
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grover norquist. grover, what a day to have you on the show. thanks for joining us. >> absolutely. of course, you know, north korea and -- media announced they did find unicorns in north korea. >> we don't often take our cues from them. i am one that firmly believes in the existence of unicorns somewhere and hopefully maybe in this fiscal cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and all efforts to increase marginal income tax rates and opposes any net reduction or elimination of deductions and credits unless matched for dollar by further reducing tax rates. closing loopholes and ending deductions would seem to increase the tax burden that americans are paying to the federal government. given that, do you support the proposal put forward by john boehner? >> well, because the proposal is significantly amorphous, you could get those revenues through economic growth and we don't really have things nailed down, i don't want to talk about a hypothetical, but there is a danger that when you
grover norquist. grover, what a day to have you on the show. thanks for joining us. >> absolutely. of course, you know, north korea and -- media announced they did find unicorns in north korea. >> we don't often take our cues from them. i am one that firmly believes in the existence of unicorns somewhere and hopefully maybe in this fiscal cliff deal. grover, the first question i have for you is this, your pledge, the pledge that many republicans have signed on to, opposes any and...
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but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because they won't allow real tax reform to support it. >> i totally agree. you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall and we have much stingier-defined public goods. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are one where there's this universal pay in. the way we're going with this inequality is talking about means testing, which is a way from a model of universal pay in and benefit. that's sustainable. >> chris hayes, thank you for being here. >>> oneover the coolest things human beings has ever seen celebrates a big birthday. it's sort of a best new moment of geek and it's coming up. >>> still ahead, the amazing story behind this incredible photo. if you look closely, that's me just to the north of mexico. wait. that's not right. >>> in 1997 th
but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because they won't allow real tax reform to support it. >> i totally agree. you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall and we have much stingier-defined public goods. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are...
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but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. i worry the compromise here is a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because republicans one allow creation of real tax reform that would support it. >> the other problem. i totally agree. the other problem, you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall, and we have much stingier-defined public goods. that we provision through the state. the point is that the most successful social welfare states are one where there's this universal pay-in and universal benefit. the way we're going with this inequality is talking about means testing and redistribution, which is away from a model of universal pay-in and universal benefit, that is the thing that is long-term sustainable. >> chris hayes, thank you for being here. host of "up with chris hayes." >>> one of the coolest things human beings has ever seen celebrat
but grover norquist is smart on this. even if it's more efficient, that makes it easier to raise taxes. i worry the compromise here is a tax code that gets high enough it's hurting the country because republicans one allow creation of real tax reform that would support it. >> the other problem. i totally agree. the other problem, you end up in a situation where we on the books have a progressive system. even compared to other countries. we pay much less in taxes overall, and we have much...
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they have made a huge move after two decades when, you know, grover norquist enforced very strictly this pledge that said no tax increases ever. you know, over my dead body. republicans have made a very significant move that says, okay. we will accept some tax increases. but let's remember, there are some very important details to be worked out. how much and when. will they just say, okay, we will stand aside while democrats pass this tax cut for the middle class and then let the tax cuts for the wealthy engs pyre? that could happen. but does it happen before the end of the year? does it happen after the end of the year? >> now, dana, on that point, a lot of this is that they seem to have already lost the american public. in a new series of polls. quinnipiac shows that americans have views close to the president. 65% say raise taxes on $250,000 plus. 85% of polls pledged against raising taxes. that's 85%. 51% think that the gop is negotiating in bad faith. so the public seems to be gone from the republican cause. >> right. by two to one in virtually all of these polls we are seeing that
they have made a huge move after two decades when, you know, grover norquist enforced very strictly this pledge that said no tax increases ever. you know, over my dead body. republicans have made a very significant move that says, okay. we will accept some tax increases. but let's remember, there are some very important details to be worked out. how much and when. will they just say, okay, we will stand aside while democrats pass this tax cut for the middle class and then let the tax cuts for...
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grover norquist, that anti-tax pledge guru, his relevance is probably going to go away if taxes go up. he might want to start a marriage equality pledge for republicans to sign. just saying. >> that's a very good idea, thomas. maybe i should write something about that. >> he's part of go proud. gentlemen, thanks so much. just an idea. if it happens, i don't even want 10%. you know? >>> we do have two very special guests coming up on the show tomorrow i want to tell you about. the latest issue of jet magazine getting a lot of buzz. for the first time ever the magazine features a gay couple in its popular section for high profile wedding announcements. that couple, robi perry and paris prince of worcester, massachusetts, they're going to join me tomorrow 11:30 a.m. eastern time. huge significance of that couple's story there. >>> here's a look at stories topping the news now. the u.s. navy s.e.a.l. killed in the hostage rescue operation in afghanistan sunday has been identified as 28-year-old nicolas decheck. a highly decorated combat vet from monroeville, p.a. the embargo on his name j
grover norquist, that anti-tax pledge guru, his relevance is probably going to go away if taxes go up. he might want to start a marriage equality pledge for republicans to sign. just saying. >> that's a very good idea, thomas. maybe i should write something about that. >> he's part of go proud. gentlemen, thanks so much. just an idea. if it happens, i don't even want 10%. you know? >>> we do have two very special guests coming up on the show tomorrow i want to tell you...
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and we've spent a lot of time talking about grover norquist, another person out of government in the mind of everyone serving in government. and that is a way to make change. >> ryan, we talked about the heritage foundation. and if he is going to be an activist, is heritage the right place to go? senator demint is the one who said if we're able to stop obama on the affordable care act, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. the idea for an individual mandate which is the centerpiece of the affordable care act was birthed at the heritage foundation. >> right. but i think jim demint can kind of shape the heritage foundation to his political will. and the fact that he is able to go to the heritage foundation actually says a lot about where the two parties are on the spectrum. you could never imagine a democratic senator the equivalent of demint. you know, you couldn't imagine somebody like bernie sanders, for instance. you couldn't imagine him going to run the center for progress there is too much daylight between the establishment in washington and the kind of left wing of the dem
and we've spent a lot of time talking about grover norquist, another person out of government in the mind of everyone serving in government. and that is a way to make change. >> ryan, we talked about the heritage foundation. and if he is going to be an activist, is heritage the right place to go? senator demint is the one who said if we're able to stop obama on the affordable care act, it will be his waterloo. it will break him. the idea for an individual mandate which is the centerpiece...
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you've called grover norquist's pledge handcuffs. are all absolute positions handcuffs for a lawmaker? >> you know what, look at what's going on right now. you have one side saying we're not doing any spending cuts. the other side saying we're not doing any tax cuts. raising taxes. it's a stalemate from the get go. again you have to look at what we're trying to accomplish. and the bigger picture is we're looking at $16.2 trillion in debt. and with either plan that we look at, whether it's mr. obama's or what's been reported on the republican side, our national debt will increase anywhere from 7.7 trillion to 9.1 trillion in the next 10 years. and that's added onto the 16.2 trillion. we need to look at the amount of debt that we've incurred. and we need to work at that to reduce that. and again, it goes back to growing an economy. >> all right. well, thank you very much. florida's congressman elect ted yoho. please next time all my alex. >> thank you. >>> in 13 days some believe the world will come to an end. we got to talk about that
you've called grover norquist's pledge handcuffs. are all absolute positions handcuffs for a lawmaker? >> you know what, look at what's going on right now. you have one side saying we're not doing any spending cuts. the other side saying we're not doing any tax cuts. raising taxes. it's a stalemate from the get go. again you have to look at what we're trying to accomplish. and the bigger picture is we're looking at $16.2 trillion in debt. and with either plan that we look at, whether it's...
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host: do you agree with the grover norquist tax pledge to not raise taxes? caller: in service of the tax rates? yes, i do. i am also left scratching my head because i believe when the bush tax cuts were put into effect that many democrats oppose those as being bad for the economy. yet, and now, they are running around saying we cannot let the rates go back to the talks rates that we set up under president clinton -- the tax rates go back. what let's stick out with came out yesterday from the republicans. they want to bring in new revenue from tax reform, $800 billion being their calculations. do you agree with some who say that is increasing taxes? caller: yes and no. it depends. i would agree with that form of tax revenue increase if it went with spendingd reductions. host: that is where you see compromise? caller: we have been through this before. i have friends that frequently site back in reagan's presidency that president reagan increased taxes, but he did that as a consequence of an agreement with the democratic leadership with the democratic leadershi
host: do you agree with the grover norquist tax pledge to not raise taxes? caller: in service of the tax rates? yes, i do. i am also left scratching my head because i believe when the bush tax cuts were put into effect that many democrats oppose those as being bad for the economy. yet, and now, they are running around saying we cannot let the rates go back to the talks rates that we set up under president clinton -- the tax rates go back. what let's stick out with came out yesterday from the...
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grover norquist also an outsider, as you mentioned. clearly that works. the other piece about scott that i think is so interesting, even though as you pointed out, he is not on my cell we are not texting, we are not calling. >> but i would be the first to get up and give credit to a republican party that thought more about how to include minority voices in leadership. it's something they have struggled with. they should do it. and policy is important too there is a whole question around civil rights. i would argue way behind. but representation matters. jay-z famously said on his most recent album, when you see me, see you. politics works the same way. you want success to be shared. you want it to be represented. and i would urge the republicans to think long and hard about how to have a leadership structure that looks more like america. >> you just dropped the mic. i love it. i love it. more from the brain trust on the other side of this break as the supreme court is about to take up same-sex marriage. it is being called a watershed moment in the fight f
grover norquist also an outsider, as you mentioned. clearly that works. the other piece about scott that i think is so interesting, even though as you pointed out, he is not on my cell we are not texting, we are not calling. >> but i would be the first to get up and give credit to a republican party that thought more about how to include minority voices in leadership. it's something they have struggled with. they should do it. and policy is important too there is a whole question around...
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. >> bob, you, yesterday, shadowed grover norquist for quite some time. you went to the meeting, his wednesday meeting. >> that's right. >> he has all the time with some of the most powerful conservatives in d.c. and across the country attending. what was their attitude about any deal that boehner might have to make? >> it's pretty interesting when you talk to house republicans because they look at boehner from two different perspectives. on one side, boehner went in front of the house conference and he said, i'm not going to back any deal that increases rates. so they feel pretty confident on rates. that's where i think "the new york times" comes from. on rates they think boehner is still with house conservatives. at the same time, there's a lot of raised eyebrows right now because just as boehner is promising not to buckle on rates, he's purging four conservatives from committee. >> i was going to ask you about that. now, newt, and bob livingston tried that with mark newman back in '95. that didn't work out well for him. we said we're going to vote agai
. >> bob, you, yesterday, shadowed grover norquist for quite some time. you went to the meeting, his wednesday meeting. >> that's right. >> he has all the time with some of the most powerful conservatives in d.c. and across the country attending. what was their attitude about any deal that boehner might have to make? >> it's pretty interesting when you talk to house republicans because they look at boehner from two different perspectives. on one side, boehner went in...
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norquist's good and a couple of other folks saying allowing any revenue, any rates to increase qualifies as a tax hike. >> yeah. but that's been their position all along. that was the central issue. taxes go up on the top 2% or they don't. right? it was obama versus romney. he keep come back to this that you heard bill crystal say what the hell are we doing as a party? even tom kohl said let's buy in 98% and get it out of the way and take credit for it. why is bajner refuse to go schedule a boat on that proposal. >> obtain doesn't have the votes. simple math, this is sort of the reality of washington. >> doesn't have the votes to block it? >> he doesn't have the votes to pass any kind of tax reform from his own caucus. they operate by a rule called the majority of the majority. effectively the house republicans will do whatever the majority of their caucus says is okay with. you know, they don't have that majority. >> if they deck -- okay. i am trying to understand where boehner is coming from. right? >> yeah. >> bill: because i think this is a time for sleepered. i am say that. not you.
norquist's good and a couple of other folks saying allowing any revenue, any rates to increase qualifies as a tax hike. >> yeah. but that's been their position all along. that was the central issue. taxes go up on the top 2% or they don't. right? it was obama versus romney. he keep come back to this that you heard bill crystal say what the hell are we doing as a party? even tom kohl said let's buy in 98% and get it out of the way and take credit for it. why is bajner refuse to go schedule...
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Dec 9, 2012
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bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we have one house, that's it. the presidency and the senate in the democrats hands. a lot of people are putting forth a theory. i think it has merit. you go in and give the president the 2% increase that he's talking about. the rate increase on the top 2%. all of a sudden, the shift goes back to entitlements. >> what corker is also saying, what he went on to say is when we hit the debt ceiling next year, in february, then republicans are going to have the leverage then. that's something the president dispu disputed. one problem, bob corker is a senator, he's not in the house of representati
bob corker, the republican in the senate said he would break the grover norquist push. he didn't talk about the tax rates. as we all know, the key is the president's and democrats insistence on the rate going up from 35 to 39n't 6%. this week, he was much more specific. he's saying to republicans, hey, cut our losses now and live to fight another day. here he is. >> has a growing group of folks looking at this and realizing we don't have a lot of cards as it relates to the tax issue. we...
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they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's naive of me to even bring this up -- but wouldn't that be important for them to take on what those are together and shoulder to shoulder? >> what i remember last summer when the president said to boehner essentially, let's lock arms and jump off the, you know, at that point it was a different kind of cliff, together. it's going to require both leaders. each is going to have to make sacrifices. in order to get this done. and i think that, you know, i think everybody recognizes the consequences of not getting it done. >> so how do you tell republicans that won't support a tax increase unless they believe entitlement reform's c
they've got to get through the rocky shoals of grover norquist. >> right. >> and all those folks. >> and you have to get through the rocky shoals of nancy pelosi when you start talking entitlements. >> you see democrats who are, i think, talking very realistically about what needs to be done. on entitlements, i think the question isn't whether we have to do something about medicare, it's how we do something about medicare. >> so wouldn't that be -- and maybe it's...